checks the clock and says softly ” Welcome to Roses lecture on the following topics.. BY REQUEST ….definitions of slavery over submission. Reasons to be enslaved. as opposed to submission. how to transition to slavery, separated forms of slavery. TPE & Hierarchy and if we have time . Q &A i`ll try to keep this one under 1hr 30 but i`m promising Nothing ! and this lecture is written around both subs prospective slaves, Mistress`s and switches
ok   so  slavery as opposed to  submission, we covered the largest and most profound   definition  of this   difference,   the word  no  and as I  said the rest  really is  just smoke and mirrors  but  we can  lift that  veil a little  bit more this week i`m hoping and dispel a  few of the myths  that surround slavery as we go along.
Well, if I had a dime for every time someone asked this, I’d be doing this lecture  this on a laptop on a beach somewhere in the Caribbean. in the past   I’ve resisted the urge to answer this question, because I know someone else will argue every conceivable explanation and I can put my time to better use on other more definable philosophical arguments, like how many chucks could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
But since people will still be asking this question (and I’ll still be unable to resist the compulsion to answer) when I’m 97 and senile i`ll add   my “definitive” answer to this question now; that way it won’t matter if I go all soft in the brains department, I can just refer to my notes that say, “This is your opinion on such-and-such, remember?”
so  hers a  few common  .  answers  that you will hear over  and over  by   almost  everyone  you meet that  has   been ” trained”  to answer …

A submissive is someone who negotiates; a slave does not
A submissive has limits; a slave has given up all limits except those which his/her owner sets for them.
A submissive obeys and serves by choosing to do so each time and retains her will. A slave initially makes a choice to obey his/her master/mistress at all times and then submits to the will of his/her master at all times.
A submissive accepts submission, while a slave accepts obedience.
A submissive has retained some rights within the context of the D/s relationship, whereas a slave has given up all rights and becomes, in effect, property.
A submissive is owned, but a slave is possessed.
A slave is not allowed to sit on furniture or wear clothes, and always kneels at his/her owner’s feet.
A submissive has a safe-word to end play, while a slave has consented to no-consent.
A slave must be a submissive, but a submissive is not necessarily a slave.
Being a submissive is just a step on the way to the “ultimate” state of submission, which is being
a slave.
A slave is more submissive than a “mere” submissive. Submissives are just playing; slaves live the lifestyle.
A submissive has more self-respect than a slave. Slaves are crazy, because who in their right mind would want to be a slave?
and those are  just a few of the possible answers you will hear   in parrot fashion  some of them are right  some of them a re complete  cods wallop!

This is about the point where the fistfights and hair-pulling begin, and someone eventually is provoked to lob the ultimate holy hand-grenade of judgment: “You’re not a real submissive/slave!”

All of the above definitions are something I’ve actually heard people say, or read in various books or websites. Some of them are things I’ve subscribed to at one time or another. Some of them are completely true for the way a particular person lives and functions and perceives themselves as either a slave or a submissive. Some of them are pure bullshit. But this gets me  or you in this case no closer to a final answer.

Maybe we might get further asking what a submissive and a slave have in common. Both have a deep need/desire to submit/surrender/give up at least some part of their will/control/power to a Dominant. They most often “need” this because pleasing and/or offering service to a Dominant who has earned their trust, their respect and (generally) their love, is an integral part of a submissive/slave’s fulfillment and satisfaction.
Now i`m sure someone has already disagreed with the above paragraph, on the grounds that they desire being controlled purely for the love of being controlled, not because they wish to please and/or serve…. so here i now add the caveat of saying, Okay a slave or submissive both need to give up some part of their control/power to a Dominant for whatever reason that motivates them. Fair enough? I think the ultimate point of this lecture, is that I am most assuredly not trying to limit or define or anyone in a negative way
So if we follow this “common ground” to its natural conclusion, then a submissive and a slave are really the same except for the extent to which they submit. A slave submits more of themselves (all of themselves? depends on your point of view ) to their owner.  Ah, but, what is “more”? “More” than who’s less? Just like that, we’re back in sticky territory once more because everyone wants to quantify and measure the degrees of submission

“True slavery does not exist, and cannot exist in this or   most  countries around the world .”
Even if an individual agrees in every imaginable way to “be” a slave, there is no court in the United States  or Europe,  that recognizes slavery, consensual or otherwise, as a valid status. HOWEVER their are  countries  which  do accept it  and endorse it,  as a valid status..    .    If that slave decides to stop being a slave, there is no legal means to force them to return to that state, even if they signed a dozen notarized documents and have their owner’s name branded on their ass.

If leaving is an option, then is it really “slavery?” What we call slavery in the Lifestyle is a carefully crafted and maintained fantasy, even if it is fueled and compelled by very real needs, and lived 24/7 in very extreme states of control and obedience. Due to legal  reasons   one cannot   advertise oneself as a slave in public   or  society  and in most societies  to attempt o do  so    brings  a  WHOLE new can of worms   .  However for SL purposes     you have another problem ..    once  you accept you  aer  enslaved  .    any  ideas  what  that   HUGE problem is ?
Tenshi Brightflame :  raises her hand.
yes tenshi ?
Tenshi Brightflame ): From uncollaring with using a non RLV viewer until losing interest in SL. Real life is always prioritized and it becomes odd if a slave says: “Sorry, need to grab a coffee”.

is a good one, i`ll grant ya . how many will stop a beating or a whippign and rape scene to go pick up the kids .. still makes me chuckle but yes Rl comes first always, but I was looking more at how a slave is viewed as opposed to a subby

in short  its  men  NOW  i`m not going to be a   complete   fruit about this  and i`m  not  really a man hating  frigid bitch  .though doesn t  do any harm to promite me as a such 😛 but men  see the word slave  as opposed to subby  .   and their minds head straight for the top shelf magazines in the  sex  shop  and with that  little  adventure    they loose  common sense .

so their  view of a slaved   woman   is  Completely  different in   99.5% of  cases  than the reality  of the situation i`m pointing this out because some of you have alerady  encountered  such a  person  I am   in  No doubt what so ever
their version of the lifestyle comes from the magazines that have paper around them and nine times out of ten have no bearing in  reality  at all but that won’t stop  those types of people from trying  to make You do things  they  ” know is right for  slaver  and subbies   to do  ” Chalcedony Mao-Brightflame (chalcedonymao): So, a whole lot of Gor stuff :p
yeah    basically     the   faster their wrists move the  moer intence the scene is
so    i`m  going to conclude  the  definition   .  of slavery  as opposed to  submission  by  saying this …..Rose BrightFlame  and Katy   Kinsey    and Karen Alton    Say   .. ” submission is a personal journey, always fluid. Slavery, while “generally” the more extreme end of submission’s sliding scale, is more useful as an ideal some strive for. And it doesn’t really matter in the end. What is submission to you may not be submission for me. What is slavery for me may not be slavery to you. The only definitions that really matter in your life are your own, and the person(s) you serve.” and yes  i`m  Enslaved to  My Owner  Brace Mayo  Brightflame  Online  here  in sl   and email and  other places  and Off line  in the real  time as well   and I wouldn’t have that’s  Any other way !  everyone up to  speed so  far?
Joy Brightflame : /me raises my hand

yes joy
Joy Brightflame : So… getting specific how that does work in the Brightflame family? If a salve can not say “no” then there would be times that would lead them to be dishonest about their feelings and such with their Owner. Yet, one of the four pillars of this family is honesty.
have you ever heard me say  no to my owner`s request?  and  yet i`m  sure you have heard me say no  to others.  not often a s I  try to be a helpful a I can  but the defining line here is that    you  only  have to    obey  your owner.
so in no way  would you be dishonoest   to  say  no  to  others  nor  would  not being able to say  no  to your owner be  dishonesty does that answer the question  joy ?

Joy Brightflame : Not really. But I will not hold you up
ok  lets look at this one again  a  moment as I  hate leaving loose ends
Joy Brightflame : May I give an example?
would you  furnish me  with an  example of how you mean  this to be  ?snap  great minds 😛  go  for it

Joy Brightflame : we now have a stables here. so let’s say an Owner in the family really wants their slave to be a pony, but the slave has misgivings of being such. According to what I have understood from you . even if the slave has misgivings, if the Owner asks if they have any issues with being a pony, then the slave’s only answer is “No” which is being dishonest to their Owner.
ahh yes ok, this one  i`m  going to hand  directly to  My Owner
Brace Mao-Brightflame : Thanks, Mo Chroí
Brace Mao-Brightflame : Let me respond to this in this way
Brace Mao-Brightflame : While it is absolutely true that I could tell Rose to do something and she would with out fail do it…….there are some things I would not tell her to do.   Because the honesty pillar ties into respect and  trust.
Brace Mao-Brightflame : Before Rose and I entered into this relationship we learned about each other
Brace Mao-Brightflame : Built up a respect for each other
Brace Mao-Brightflame : Learned to  trust each other
Brace Mao-Brightflame : Because of the respect I have for her, and the mutual trust we share….
Brace Mao-Brightflame : There are certain things I will not ask her to do
Brace Mao-Brightflame : Would she do the….yes
Brace Mao-Brightflame : Would I ask her….no
Brace Mao-Brightflame : A Mistress knows her slave
and ifi  may  add   a  slave  must  get to know her  owner .
other wise you end up  chained to a bed at  franks    emprorium   or worse
Brace Mao-Brightflame : Correct.   It is a two way street.

Tenshi Brightflame : /me nods smiling and takes notes.
there is another aspect though    that   was missed in the point  ..  if i may   diverse a moment Mistress?
Brace Mao-Brightflame : Please do
the four pillars  whilst  strong   and   sturdy
are only  strong  because     there are four of them   that interlock  just as  slavery  and submission to a degree is a partnership a closer  bond than marriage in manyways.  I know of  a slave  who will be happy  to get  very  bloody  on the  end of a  whip  .   till  its runnign out of her wounds     and shes  in tears so  bad she can’t breath but she won’t do anal  with her husband that  would be  disrespectful  “dirty  ” even the partnership  has to be  flexible enough to withstand such  tollerances as yes She can make me do this  but will she? and rigid  enough tosay yes I will go to be d like a good girl at 11 pm tonigth because we bothknow itsd the right thing to do and cos ifi don’t she gets to srip and beat me in front of you lot
but the only way this works is  if the flexibility of knowing your owner  and  your slave  is there, what you  end up with is anarchy, chaos  and  very unhappy slaves and that is not a good thing when you count out hwo large this family May become .
hell  two of us   argueing  brings the house down imagine what would happen with  four  or six of us now  is  your  question answered  joy ?
Joy Brightflame : Yes, thank you very much. It is correctly answered as well. I think a lot of that was missing from last week’s lecture and this week’s so far. I appreaciate your time and candor on this matter.
Brace Mao-Brightflame : If I may say this
of course Mistress

Brace Mao-Brightflame : A D/s relationship is a two way street.   The four interlocking pillars of course.   But there is one point that I always come back to for me, as a Mistress, and as a person.   May not work for everyone, but works for me…..
Brace Mao-Brightflame : There is no greater joy or happiness than that which comes from the happiness of the ones you love

so lets wrap the last  few  toics up    and  then throw up a  q an  a..
how to transition to slavery,  the simple   version  we just out lined for you ..  ”   get to know  your owner  an allow them to know you   . not the image of you  but You,   ensue they know your likes dislikes    tastes   desires  and   taboos..   limits   and   loves     we used to call it .   and  then probe to find out theirs!..     when your sure  and when they are  sure    kneel and ask to be enslaved .    the owners  should then    relay the   request upstairs till the  Head of house says  yes or no   interviews you    or  doesn’t at  the owners  discretion  and then    changes your status then the real   fun  begins!..  as you start to learn …..

so  has  any one  got any other  questions  ?..   on tonights lecture? and yes I missed  tpe and  hierarchy   BUT to be fair I covered  virtually  everything else in the   lecture   so  far….

Tenshi Brightflameshakes her head. “No questions from my side…” she mumbles and clamps the pen to the clipboard.

unless Mistress  has  any other  plans      I think the lectures  done for the day  …..smiles and   steps off the lecturn  but  stands  near by   ……